Gemma Nicholl Medina: No matter where you are, you can bring nature to you or take children to nature. There’s always something available. And you can make it available if you can’t find it.
Rusty Keeler: Hi, this is Rusty Keeler and you’re listening to the Play Nature Podcast where we talk about play nature, playing in nature, and the nature of play. I’m glad you’re here. Let’s have a listen.
Hi, Gemma.
Gemma Nicholl Medina: Hey Rusty.
Rusty Keeler: How you doing?
Gemma Nicholl Medina: I’m doing great. How are you doing?
Rusty Keeler: Good. Good. You know, I did not know that Hawaii was not on what Daylight savings didn’t participate.
Gemma Nicholl Medina: Right. We don’t change our clocks, so Yeah. I always have to do the math every year when I try and connect with people.
Rusty Keeler: Yeah, yeah. So sometimes, yeah.
Right, so sometimes for us in the East Coast, it’s six hours and other times it’s five hours. Yes. Difference. Yeah. So we had, I had a little snafu just now, but look at us. We’re, we’re right on time.
Gemma Nicholl Medina: Here we are.
Rusty Keeler: Yay. Yay. And so also, uh, with Hawaii, I thought, I thought it was interesting that the sun’s about the same time all year long.
Gemma Nicholl Medina: Yeah. There’s not that much difference. Yeah. About an hour or so.
Rusty Keeler: Okay. And it’s right around, it’s, it is around 6:00 PM right?
Gemma Nicholl Medina: Mm-hmm. Six. Well, in the summer it could get to seven. Okay. Okay.
Rusty Keeler: Yeah. Yeah. I thought that was really neat when I was over there and, but then also surprising because you know, when it’s all summary.
Here in upstate New York, it stays light till 9, 9 30 at night. Right. Yeah. And everything.
Gemma Nicholl Medina: That’s my experience too. Growing up, I grew up in England, so we had these really long nights and I tend to forget that until I go back and visit. I’m like, oh, it’s 10 o’clock and it’s still kind of light outside.
Yeah,
Rusty Keeler: yeah, yeah. So I found that in Hawaii it was interesting because then a lot of people seem to be mourning, get up, seize the morning,
Gemma Nicholl Medina: get up early.
Rusty Keeler: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because the daylight is, is happening. Then Yeah. You know, I mean,
Gemma Nicholl Medina: that happens at my house. ’cause I have a 2-year-old, but yes.
Rusty Keeler: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
All right. Well I’m excited to dive into, you know, our, our favorite topics here. Um, so I thought I’d read the bio and then we can, we can dive in. Okay. Gemma has been in the early childhood field since she was a child herself and is a strong advocate for play. With over 20 years of experience in the trenches as a toddler teacher, preschool teacher and program director, she’s now an assistant professor at the University of Hawaii, Maui College.
She believes that nature and play are crucial pieces of childhood that some of her students missed out on. I wanna talk about that.
Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.
Rusty Keeler: She aims to infuse her college courses with both nature and play in order to inspire the next generation of early childhood educators. Most recently, she has developed a place-based education course that focuses on hands-on experiences rooted in Hawaiian culture.
In her spare time, she visits local preschools and community events, singing and playing tambourine as part of Uncle Wayne and the Howling Dog Band. Oh,
Gemma Nicholl Medina: oh,
Rusty Keeler: that is my dream gig right there to,
Gemma Nicholl Medina: we gotta get you over here one day.
Rusty Keeler: Yeah. Bring that, bring that base over and do the library tour.
Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.
Rusty Keeler: Yeah.
Well, let’s see where to start. I mean. It’s, it’s interesting if we just jump in with the college students, you know, if we, if we’re believers in play and wanting to provide play and nature and outdoors and those kind of experiences, you know, we, you know, we can ask. People my age, people your age, what did you do when you were a child?
And, uh, people have, you know, these free range childhood memories or roaming, and then, you know, till the lights went on and all that. But here you’re dealing with 18, 19, 20, 21 year olds who didn’t have that experience.
Gemma Nicholl Medina: Yeah, they didn’t get that same experience. And I, I kind of started seeing this a couple of years ago.
So I’ve been in at the college now for about 10 years. Um, I was a adjunct for a while just teaching one class, and so I would always talk about play. And my first question is always think back to when you were a child. Where did you play? And even in that 10 year span. And then before that, when I was doing workshops on play-based education, I would ask the same question.
And like you said, people that were sort of my age or older had these experiences of, you know, playing mostly here. It’s playing at the beach or being outside and being away from adults. Now I’m seeing this trend of really students not having those same experiences. And so when I ask that question, I have a range of students in my courses, age ranges, you know, from, like you said, 19, 20 year olds to, you know, older than me.
And so there’s a range of answers, and it’s the younger students that are coming up with saying, you know, I played a lot by myself. I was inside, I did, um, organized sports, so you know. Baseball after school, soccer, that kind of thing. And they didn’t have these same rich experiences that maybe you and I had being outside, being on our own with a group of kids ranging in ages, running around and coming back when the street lights turned on.
They just didn’t have that. And so I realized, you know, here I am trying to teach them about play-based learning or, or play in general, and they just haven’t had those same experiences. So I need to infuse my courses with more of that. So that they can get some of that play and nature.
Rusty Keeler: Yeah. So what do those conversations look like?
You know, it’s an, uh, it’s an easy sell when people have had those experiences of like, yeah, it’s important for children to get out and get in nature and be with other kids and get messy and all that. But yeah. How, what, what’s that conversation like? So,
Gemma Nicholl Medina: what I’ve started noticing is things that I used to do for students to share with families, to practice sharing with families and articulate what play is.
For example, they have to observe children in play and write about it and, and analyze the children in play. What I’m hearing back from students now is they learn so much about play through observing the children. Um, so I think observing children getting real world experiences with children that many of them don’t have yet, is one of the ways to highlight that play, but also to bring it into the classroom and to do activities that are.
Joyful and playful and present materials in the same way that I would with children.
Rusty Keeler: Playing with them, playing with the college students, playing with them, letting the college students play, play, and just feel that, that kind of free play.
Gemma Nicholl Medina: I was gonna say, last week we were on campus and uh, they were running around doing a scavenger hunt for a nature based class that I was teaching, and they ended up climbing trees and, you know, picking flowers and running around.
So, so giving them those experiences and we all laugh and we all. Connect in a much deeper way when we have those playful experiences with the students. Uh,
Rusty Keeler: yeah. Yeah. It’s like something else can bubble out. Yeah. Of
Gemma Nicholl Medina: who
Rusty Keeler: they are. Who they are besides being in the classroom and, you know, working hard and having conversations.
Yeah. Very different if you’re up in a tree or picking flowers. Uh, that’s interesting too. I like that idea of them watching like, like learning. Learning from the next generation, learning from the young generation about. Play.
Gemma Nicholl Medina: Yeah. I really value students having, um, service learning. So I try and incorporate that in my classes where they go and do 20 hours in a local program and reflect on those experiences.
And then we also have a two practicum courses where students actually are immersed in the classroom, you know, in a classroom setting for a semester, and then have, um, assignments and activities that they do with children in that setting.
Rusty Keeler: Yeah. Yeah. Being right in there.
Gemma Nicholl Medina: Yeah.
Rusty Keeler: Huh. Um, does anyone ever feel sad?
Like when they see the, like the freedom and joy that children are having in front of them that they might, that they can’t relate to it or,
Gemma Nicholl Medina: you know, I’ve never had that experience. I haven’t had any students share that experience. I feel sad for them. Yeah. But I haven’t had. Express that sadness.
Rusty Keeler: Yeah, I mean it’s such a joyful, you know, thing to be observing to watch children play so that they can be swept in that.
And uh, and then it is interesting, just the play itself is like this. It’s like this, I feel like it’s like, like, like water, like at light, like energy that it, it just, it’s always, if it gives, if you give it the right ingredients or the right space that it will flourish. It, it can come out even in college, students climbing trees on campus and, right.
Huh, okay, so they’re, they’re getting there. Heart and mind around just play and, and supporting that and then bringing the nature thing of how, how did you get on the belief of natural experiences for children?
Gemma Nicholl Medina: Well, I mean, that started for me as a child. I grew up, like I said, I grew up in England and I did have a lot of experiences playing in nature and being in nature and, you know, running through fields and playing in mud.
And I remember those and I, I cherish those. And I think that there’s a lot more opportunity for, or at least when I was growing up for walking, going on walks and, and being in a sort of, you know, you might be in a, a more industrial area, but there’s always somewhere you can go and find nature in where I grew up.
And then coming here, I moved to Hawaii when I was, well, I moved to America when I was 16. Moved away when I was 21. So I’ve been here for some time and you know, I love going to the beach. I find peace in nature. I find joy in nature. And so for me, it just was bringing my passion to the children that I was working with.
You know, I noticed a change in children that had behavior issues. For example, when I brought ’em outside, I noticed, uh, more engagement when children weren’t involved in things like gardening or, um, you know, collecting items outside or. Kind of thing. So it just became this, um, in interest for me personally.
Um, and then it sort of bubbled over into my work and I was actually taking classes at the college where I now teach. And one of my, um, instructors who is now my colleague, Julie Powers, she said, oh, you should look into place-based education. I think you’d find that really interesting and I’d never heard of the term.
Okay. Um, you know, this is like 25 years ago, 20 years ago, and she was the founder of the Dodge Nature Preschool in Minnesota.
Rusty Keeler: Yeah. Yep. So love, love that place. Love it.
Gemma Nicholl Medina: Yeah. So that was the first thing I looked up was, okay, Dodge Nature Preschool, let’s look at that. Yeah. And so then that just started me, sort of my journey into.
Learning about forest schools and nature play and then that led to risk taking and the benefits of risk taking and these having these outdoor natural environments that really provide those affordances, right, for children to participate in that type of play. So that’s kind of where my, my journey sort of evolved into being interested in place-based education.
And then being in Hawaii, you know, there is such a rich culture. That is vibrant here with the native Hawaiian culture, and you can see it in places. And I just felt like being here, children that are here, they need to know this. They, this is where we are and this is the land that we’re on and this is, this is how we need to teach children to care for the land in the future.
Rusty Keeler: To get to know where they are, where they live. To get to know
Gemma Nicholl Medina: where they are. Yeah,
Rusty Keeler: where, where they live. Where the history, the culture, the mud. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah,
Rusty Keeler: the mud. Well, it’s interesting, even like to be inspired by say, Dodge Nature Center and the forest schools and things, and we, we want, we love that stuff and want it, but then the idea of thinking, well wait.
We, that’s not where we live. We don’t live in the, you know, you don’t, you don’t live in the forests of, is that Minnesota St. Paul, and, you know, but how do you take those ideas and translate it into, into where you do live and Right. I know for me that that idea inspired me a long time ago when I was kind of making the switch from playground equipment.
Where you’re des, you’re designing stuff that people could buy anywhere. You know, pick it out of a catalog and you know, wherever you’re at, whether it’s Minnesota or Hawaii or Alaska, Florida, anything. And, you know, of course for me that was exciting in the beginning of like, oh, I’m, you know, designing things and learning about play and, and development and everything.
Then it was like, wait a second. Uh, I, I kinda like, I stopped liking that idea of everybody gets the same thing and then it started thinking, you know, stopping, liking the idea of just like, what culture is that then? And then you, you know, you think about our American culture, you know, whether it’s Denny’s or strip malls or you know, what, what are the things that are kind of everywhere mm-hmm.
That are almost. Non culture, but beneath that, everywhere there’s, there is history, there is the earth. There is, yeah. Yeah. Culture and, and how can, how do we tap into that? How do we learn and, and then bring it for the, for the next generation, right. Of, of the, of children. And I love that idea about them getting to know, you know, even in their fenced in backyard.
Right. Getting to know what, what are the trees? Plant some of the local trees, bring in some of the, you know, the elders. And so anyway, that’s, that’s my love. I, you know, I love that idea of like getting to know where, you know, that, that REM song of Stand in the place where you live?
Speaker 3: Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Rusty Keeler: And so, like, okay, how do we do that?
How do we place children in the place where they live? And, and so, yeah. So how do you, how do you do that where you are?
Gemma Nicholl Medina: Yeah, so that journey for me began when I was at, uh, Mon OA Children’s Center. So I worked at the Children’s Center for some time. I was actually an intern there, and my very first day as an intern, um, the director who’s Wayne Watkins, uncle Wayne at the time, he picked me up and he said, oh, they’re on a learning trip right now, so I’m just gonna drop you off with them.
The, the group of children that you’ll be with, and you can go find them. They’re down there by the stream. So he drops me off and it was at the Hawaiian Studies building. You know, I was greeted by this beautiful mural of the Kumal Lippo, which is a Hawaiian, uh, creation story, and followed that to, what was the tarot patch, the loi, this, you know, the kalo was growing and it was just so beautiful.
And then I could hear children in the distance. So I walk along the tarot patches, find the stream, walk along the stream, and there they are. And they were learning about the flow of the water and how. The flow of the water enters into the tarot patches and then goes back to the stream. So it’s a very sustainable way of farming.
And that in that instant, I was like, this, this is what children need. So I spent three years, three plus years at that program and really immersed myself in that, that place-based sort of world, um, and started doing workshops and things about that, taking children. To places repeatedly so they can build relationships with that place.
So it doesn’t just, it’s not just a one-off trip, right? You’re not just going for a field trip. It is an opportunity for children to build a relationship with a certain place. And, and you know, they do that when they start naming things in that place. You know, like, oh, this is stick land or whatever.
Speaker 3: Mm.
Gemma Nicholl Medina: Um, so that became important to me and during the workshops I would have people go, well, that’s great.
Look where you work. Of course you can do that. Of course you can. You have a native garden, you have this outdoor space, you have all these resources. And so then it became a challenge for me to be like, okay, I need to find somewhere where it’s not as easy to, you know, I don’t have a Hawaiian studies building or a low e patch at my beck and call.
Okay. So I, uh, moved back to Maui and I began as the director at the emu a inclusion preschool. So as a inclusion preschool. Um, offering services for children who had disabilities or developmental delays, uh, as well as children who were typical. And we sort of built that program. And when I first started there, it was very blank slate.
Um, a little bit clinical. There wasn’t any. Nature. And so I walked in, I went, okay, this is the challenge. This is it,
Speaker 3: uh, Uhhuh. Um, and the first
Gemma Nicholl Medina: thing I did just as you talked about was bring in native plants. I remember getting a mut, which is a Hawaiian cotton tree, and my little small group of six children, we all stood around this pot and planted this cotton tree.
And I was like, okay, this is it. This is the beginning. Um, and that grew from there. It grew from there, and we built our garden and. Because we were in sort of the industrial area of Maui, which is kind of where the airport is. There’s not a lot, we’re not by the ocean. There’s not a lot of nature.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Gemma Nicholl Medina: Um, I wanted to find somewhere that the children could have those repeated experiences.
So the local park was just a short walk away. And when I first visited, I couldn’t believe the green space that we had. So it was fields, trees, native trees. Just a lot of area for the children to explore. So we started doing walking trip Wednesdays, and that came walking trip Wednesdays became, that was our way to go and explore the nature in our backyard and we would do things like collect, you know, seed pods or things like that and bring them back to the classroom.
So it was them bringing the nature back to the classroom and infusing the classroom with those materials.
Rusty Keeler: Nice. Bring it back. Yeah, bring it back with, yeah. Yeah.
Gemma Nicholl Medina: Yeah. So that lasted a while and then we started having some children that had a little bit more need for space. Uh, space was pretty small and we were also trying to learn about native plants with the children at the time.
And so my co-teacher and I decided that we were gonna do, go to the local botanical gardens. Which was, we thought a short walk away. Well, we, we walked it, it was about, you know, 45 minutes for us. And so we thought with a group of 20 children, this is gonna take forever. Okay. What if we just have them drop off and pick up?
And so we created a forest school Friday. Nice. And every Friday the children would get dropped off and picked up at this botanical gardens and we would explore. Oh, wow. Really? In that space,
Rusty Keeler: the, the parents would drop them off.
Gemma Nicholl Medina: Yeah. As if
Rusty Keeler: that was the center, but in Yes.
Gemma Nicholl Medina: For
Rusty Keeler: Fridays. Okay.
Gemma Nicholl Medina: Yeah. So for Fridays, every Friday was a field trip day.
Wow. Yeah. And we would go to Forest school Friday. Yeah. Love it. And this just gave us the opportunity to do more of those nature-based activities within the botanical gardens that has a vast array of native plants and experts. And we would help plant things there. And then we had a space in the back that was more sort of open and free that children could just explore without being in a, you know, an environment that other people might be using that we had to be a little bit more.
Respectful of the space
Speaker 3: Uhhuh,
Gemma Nicholl Medina: they had a bit more freedom when they went to the back of the, the hill in the back.
Rusty Keeler: Yeah, yeah,
Gemma Nicholl Medina: yeah. So that, that’s what how we started to infuse our program at that time with the sort of place-based elements and nature-based elements was getting them out. Finding them in a local community.
Rusty Keeler: I love that. I love that. Well, it, it feels like a blend of planting the tree. Like, okay, where, where you are, okay, how do we make that a little more natural? And knowing that some of those things take time. Yeah. But bringing in the nature of the native plants and stuff to your, your space, even if it’s small.
The, the walking adventures, the field trips to see what’s out there, what’s out and about. I have a friend who runs a nature program, a free ranging nature program, adventure walkers. Nice shout. Shout out to Jim. And so it’s that kind of thing of like, all right, we’re gonna go on our adventure. Walk. Um, and then I love the idea of bringing things, you’re bringing things then back to the classroom that, that have meaning, that you’ve had experiences with, with them, whether it’s seed, pods or leaves or, you know, special rocks.
Rocks and things. And then that becomes a part of their, you know, textures and Yeah. Be part of their experience. Um, I like that, you know, head, hands and heart, you know, they’re, they’re having relationships with just the objects. The place. Right. And then, and then to be able to go into a more, more even immersive environment of the botanical gardens and, and everything.
Everything there. Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, so other people listen, you know, people listening. Those, those three things seem very doable. You know, not everybody could walk to some of that stuff, but certainly there’s ways to do that. Thinking about those.
Gemma Nicholl Medina: Yeah, and I think that’s the key that I try and, and help my students to see is that no matter where you are, you can bring nature to you or take children to nature.
There’s always something available and you can make it available if you can’t find it. The idea of place-based education being, you know, a, a mixture of the environment, right? So we’re out in nature. Children are building this relationship with nature. They care about it. That is how we’re gonna. Create this sustainable future for our natural environment.
And then the relationships, that part is so crucial. Building relationships with, um, the land and. Having those repeated experiences, like even if it’s a tree that you go visit, that becomes your class tree and you watch it change through the seasons. ’cause we do have seasons in Hawaii. Um, we do have them.
And then the, um, so the environment, the relationships, and then the culture bringing in those native plants and the stories and songs that go with them. And so that was sort of my workshops were about these three elements of place-based education. But it wasn’t until I actually started teaching. The place-based course at the college that I really realized how intertwined those three things are in Hawaii culture in particular.
So I co-teach this class, right? So this place-based education course that was developed was developed by myself and my teaching partner. Her name’s Aubrey Matura, and she is a Hawaiian studies teacher. So she brings the Hawaiian cultural element. Ah, yes.
Rusty Keeler: And I bring the
Gemma Nicholl Medina: early childhood element. Oh,
Rusty Keeler: wow.
Okay.
Gemma Nicholl Medina: So as we co-created the course. I remember once I was lecturing, so I lecture one week, she does the second week, and then we go on field trips to certain places that have cultural significance. And so, for example, say our topic is storytelling. She might come in and talk about the importance of the mullo, the stories of Hawaii, the oli, the chance, the melee, the songs, and the hula, the dances, right?
So all of those are the the storytelling culture that really is here in Hawaii and that. Goes, goes back, it used to be an oral tradition, and then the following week I’ll come in and say, and these are the ways that you can connect these Hawaiian stories, songs, and chants with the children. So you could do puppet shows or you could do.
Felt board stories or you, um, here are some stories that are appropriate for children. ’cause not all of them are. Okay. Yeah. Uh, and then we’ll go to a place that really lends itself to storytelling. So there’s a, a place that we go called ko and they tell the story of Maui. Maui, um, slowed the sun. It’s a common story that you hear here.
Um, part of what he had to do was collect cordage and create this cord to lasso the sun’s rays. Ooh, okay. And the story goes that actually it was at this place, PI Loco, where he collected that cordage from the coconut trees. So it all kind of connects. Wow. Right. Wow. Yeah. Um, um, and we do that with lots of various topics throughout the semester.
So we’ve gone on about seven huka or field trips. Akai means like journey. So we journey to seven different places that are culturally significant. And so I was lecturing in one of the classes, um, and I kind of could see Aubrey’s face, like looking a little quizzical. And I was talking about these three elements.
And in that moment I realized that those three elements are inseparable in Hawaiian culture. So the environment. The relationships and the culture. They’re not three separate things. It is all one thing.
Speaker 3: Ooh.
Gemma Nicholl Medina: And that was just a moment for me where I was like, oh, okay. This is why we needed to co-teach this class.
Right. I couldn’t have done this. I’m not a native Hawaiian. I don’t have that cultural worldview. The Hawaiian cultural world worldview that she has, and I was coming at it from this real westernized sort of lens.
Rusty Keeler: Yeah.
Gemma Nicholl Medina: But really from this indigenous perspective, all of those three things are, one, you can’t separate the relationship from the environment.
That the environment is your ancestor, that is your sibling, that is your family. That’s where you come from. So it really gave me this deeper understanding for place-based education.
Rusty Keeler: Wow. Okay. So it’s. You know, I always think about children and nature as children are kin. Mm-hmm. Like I, I think for me, when I observe children and nature, it feels like, like they.
They feel like familiar. Like family of the family. Yeah. Of that
Speaker 3: place.
Rusty Keeler: Yeah. Of, of the place. And that we are family. You know that with the squirrels, with the sand, with the waves, and there is that connection and. And then maybe as adults we break away and we get into just the human world or our, our our, and yet we’re still connected, right?
We are, we are connected, but, but we can be disconnected. But that idea of consciously. Reconnecting.
Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.
Gemma Nicholl Medina: Yeah. And there’s a lot of of stories in Hawaiian culture that that really highlight that. So one of the first stories that we talk about is the story of Haloa. And Haloa was the first kalo plant. So the story goes that papa and W had a a child, and then WW is the the sky, God, and papa is the Earth God.
And they have a child. And that child then has a child who becomes the first. Human, but that child was stillborn and so they plant or they bury the child. And from where that child is buried, a plant emerges and it’s the first tarot plant, Kahlo. Wow. And then they go on and they have a second child and that child becomes haloa.
And Haloa takes care of the Kahlo plant. And then in turn, Kalo plant feeds Haa and his family. And that was Haloa is the first Hawaiian. So that story is a reciprocal. You know, we take care of nature and nature takes care of us type of story, which is what better message to share with children.
Rusty Keeler: So beautiful.
That is so beautiful. It, it made me a little sad. Feeling, like feeling the cultures that are disconnected from that.
Speaker 3: Right.
Rusty Keeler: Like, like here is a culture saying like, we are of the place and the places of us and we take care of the land. And the land takes care of us. And, and that idea that we are one so beautiful.
Gemma Nicholl Medina: Right? Right. And I feel very fortunate in Hawaii. I feel like that is, there has been a big resurgence in. Cultural identity for people. And I think that that’s something that we’re seeing not only in in our community, but also in our professional development. I just went to an amazing conference a couple of weeks ago and it was all based on AA based learning.
So AA is the Hawaiian work for land. Um, so land-based learning and all these wonderful educators doing these amazing things, taking children out into, into the tarot patches or you know, really getting them to work out in the community and feel like. Put that their energy into the land. Yeah. And there’s so many wonderful organizations that are doing that now.
We also have a lot of resources that, that I notice are not necessarily available. You know, I went to Natural Start, uh, conference a couple years ago and there were some people there from Native American tribes and they had to make all of their resources ’cause they didn’t have things in their native language.
And so what we’ve seen in the last. Certainly my time here is 20 plus years. There’s been this huge growth in the availability of materials that are in Allah, Hawaii, which is the Hawaiian language that are culturally based stories. Just, just a lot more access to materials and, and cultural activities and experiences for children.
Rusty Keeler: Is that because it’s, the Hawaiian culture was kept going longer? It’s not, uh, then on the mainland of, of native, native, native cultures. Yeah, it
Gemma Nicholl Medina: could be that could, that could be part of it. I also think that we have, uh, pun on ao, which is Hawaiian Immersion Preschool.
Rusty Keeler: Okay. Yeah. And Hawaiian
Gemma Nicholl Medina: immersion preschools have really helped with the resurgence of the language.
So there’s a lot more native Hawaiian speakers thanks to these pretty amazing preschools.
Rusty Keeler: Wow. Wow. Yeah. I was just talking to a friend in New Zealand. He was saying with the Maori and you know, a lot of similar things of place-based and the language and everything. But he made a connection with the, the Hawaiian education system as being kind of parallel.
Gemma Nicholl Medina: Yeah, yeah. Actually pun on AO means language Nest and the, and that’s the name of the, um, native Hawaiian language preschools. And, um, it was modeled after the Maori programs.
Rusty Keeler: Oh, okay. Okay. Yeah,
Gemma Nicholl Medina: yeah. There are, there’s a lot of parallels.
Rusty Keeler: It’s amazing. Yeah. I, I, I did some traveling in New Zealand some years ago, and I’m looking forward to, hopefully going to the IPA conference and seeing you over there.
I know, me too. Yeah.
Gemma Nicholl Medina: That’s why I’m excited about it.
Rusty Keeler: Yeah. Yeah. And I was really blown away and inspired and amazed by the connection to the Maori culture and. Beliefs and language and, and, and not just bringing it in. First of all, just bring, I mean, yes, just bringing it in is a good thing, but then there was such an honor and respect for it as well that went along with it and, and trying to blend it and even, and learn and grow from it as a non Maori person, you know?
Uh, but bring that into the, you know, their own culture.
Gemma Nicholl Medina: Yeah,
Rusty Keeler: yeah,
Gemma Nicholl Medina: yeah. And I think for. As early childhood educators for us, I think it’s important because like I said earlier, the children are here, this is where they are, whether or not they are of Hawaiian ancestry or Hawaiian blood, this is still their home.
This is their land that they are living on and they,
Rusty Keeler: yeah, yeah,
Gemma Nicholl Medina: they, we wanna build that same connection for them and as much as we can. Um, and the only thing that we have in common with all the children. That we are with is where we are. Right. That is the only thing, the only commonality that we share a hundred percent with everyone in our classroom is where we are in time and space.
And so to honor that is really important.
Rusty Keeler: Wow. Wow. Yeah. Here, the place where you live stand in the place where, the place where we live together. I also have to just say that idea of the, of act with the stories. Mm-hmm. And actually being able to visit the place where the, the f. The person or being picked, you know, wove the cordage to lasso the sun.
Right? Like, you can, you can go to that place and see, and, and just what that would must feel like, you know, or what could feel like, like I’m going and this is where it happened and, and then what. You know, that’s a hero story. Yeah. And so like, and I think we’re all on our own hero journeys, right? And so every child like, this is where he did that and made that rope, and I’m, what, what am I gonna do?
I could do something from this place.
Gemma Nicholl Medina: Right, right. Yeah. It really is inspiring for the children and for the teachers, for the Kumu and the, the students that I take there. I mean, that has also been really, as a college instructor, that has been something that I. Witnessed is the students feeling that power.
Right? They, they didn’t know this place existed, and here we are. They’ve lived here their whole lives and they have no idea. So that’s some of the feedback that we get about this course too, is that students get to really learn about the land that they’ve lived in their whole lives and didn’t know Wow.
Yeah. About some of these stories and connections.
Rusty Keeler: Yeah. How about that?
Gemma Nicholl Medina: And the opposite is true too. We have some students who teach us and like, we should go to this place, or What about these stories? And so they share. Their personal culture with us that, that they’ve brought with them in their experiences.
Rusty Keeler: Right, right. That they’ve. There are some that may be disconnected, but there’s some that are super connected Yes. From families and cultures and generations and they know Yeah. You know, I was just thinking of food and, you know, when you’re, when you’re outside the culture of a place, it’s so, it’s so fun to visit and see the things that are, that are different and, uh, unique.
And so, you know, the, the concept of. Banana bread. Mm. In Hawaii.
Gemma Nicholl Medina: Yeah. It’s pretty common.
Rusty Keeler: Yeah. And everybody’s got their own
Gemma Nicholl Medina: recipes. Yeah. And people think, you know, anti tutu over here is the best, or, you know, go around the mountain. This person is the best, everyone has the best banana bread,
Rusty Keeler: uhhuh. Yeah.
Yeah. And so the food, yeah. The foods of the place and, and the plants. And there’s that, that nourishment and relationship. Connection again. Yeah, so that’s
Gemma Nicholl Medina: another thing with the, you know, the forest school Fridays and those, those trips we would often bring back food from, from the botanical gardens. They have a beautiful breadfruit, so ulu is breadfruit and the breadfruit trees here are just magnificent.
They’re so beautiful. Um, so we would, when that was harvested, we would take that back to the classroom and the children got to, you know, make things from the ulu that we were gifted and, and then we would share it with the people that reached in our offices. Yeah, so food is a big part I think of, of honoring a place.
Learning about the, the foods and the, the sustainability factor too. There’s so many practices in the Hawaiian culture that are so sustainable that, you know, we wanna reteach those to the children so that they can then go on and, and continue those traditions.
Rusty Keeler: Right. Because their ancestors lived in harmony and relationship for, for all those years.
Yeah. Yeah. In our culture, we have to, uh, put breaks on a bit. Mm-hmm. And then rethink things and, and, but to have that inspiration Yeah. That’s, that’s powerful. And starting in early childhood to be like, this is the, the normal, this is the way it’s been and this is what we can learn from. And, and planting those seeds in the children.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Uh,
Rusty Keeler: well maybe circling back again to people who aren’t in Hawaii or, you know, that are spread out in different places, and how can they start to think about the place where they live and how to connect their children to, within those three things, the relationship to cul culture and environment?
Gemma Nicholl Medina: Yeah. I think it starts, you start simple, right? You start simple. You find. Find a spot, find a tree, find a plant. Plant a plant, something that you can then build a relationship with, with the children. Somewhere you can revisit over time, multiple opportunities for children to make connections. It could be the park down the street, there’s, there’s something somewhere in your world that you can bring in to inspire children’s natural curiosity about nature and the natural environment.
I would also research, you know, a lot of what we teach in that course is the history behind, um, some things that have happened in Hawaii. And I think that knowing the history of a place, not that you are going to give that to the children, right, it may be above sort of their level of, of cognition at this moment in time.
But as the teacher, having that background information can help support what you’re doing and give you a little bit of context about what you’re doing. So I would learn the history. Of, you know, what was this place before it was colonized? Let’s find out. Yeah,
Rusty Keeler: yeah,
Gemma Nicholl Medina: yeah. Who are the people of this land?
What were some of the traditions that were taking place, you know, many, many years ago? And try and bring a little bit of that back in. Are there any elders that still have the language? Are there any practitioners of any of the, the cultural practices of that place? So I, I think it starts with, with exploring the history of, of where you are.
Yeah. And, you know, connecting with a little piece of, of nature in some way.
Rusty Keeler: Yeah, yeah. Of the place. I like that. Of, yeah. Yeah. Knowing where you live by the, the pine cones that, that Right. You know, that are there. Yeah. The grasses and, well, the birds. Yeah. Right. Right. And, and then the stories, and I like the intergenerational idea too of mm-hmm.
Of, of elders and bringing them in and the wisdom and the stories and, and how they played and how they connected
Speaker 3: mm-hmm.
Rusty Keeler: To the land, no matter what their culture is, no matter what their background is. Right. Yeah, I, I got, I’ve gotten to work on a few interesting projects connecting with, uh, some of the Native American tribes, Cherokee, North Carolina.
And we were, you know, I was very interested, like, yeah, let’s look at the building. You know, what were some of the building techniques and what were the materials we used? So let’s look, let’s build that way. And so the children can get a, you know, firsthand connection to it. And even like they had a language, the syllabary, which was.
They’re a written language that was formed about their language and a written kind of alphabet. I mean, um, and so we did like a tricycle track in the, in the shape of some of those, you know, so it’s that idea of like the bo body on, you know, with these, with these shapes and, and trying to just kind of get that into the, into the
Gemma Nicholl Medina: Yeah.
It’s not always about teaching explicit history, right? I mean, it is about giving the children those opportunities to experience some of what may have been experienced in that place before. Colonization.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Um,
Gemma Nicholl Medina: and to give them those experiences of the natural materials that grow in that area, to create a connection so that they then want to grow those plants, take care of that food, you know, take care of those birds that they see, um, and build that relationship.
Rusty Keeler: Yeah. Yeah. And are there local artists that could come in and be a part of it, and are there, you know, stories of that place or, or animal doing animal sculptures
Gemma Nicholl Medina: and things? Right, right. Connecting with the community, that local community, that, that is there. I would suggest finding out who those people are and bringing them in and, and connecting in that.
Rusty Keeler: Yeah. Yeah. I, I know sometimes, you know, early childhood educators have a lot on their plates, uh, and so there’s a lot going on, but that idea of the community that so many people would love to be a part of projects, you know, asking local businesses or local elders or, uh, local artists or plant people to come in and say, Hey, I’m working with.
Early childhood people. Early childhood, early young children. I work with young children and we’d love to have some, you know, artwork that represents of our place or, or learn about plants or, you know, the idea that the, the educator doesn’t have to do it all, doesn’t have to know at all.
Gemma Nicholl Medina: Right? Absolutely.
You don’t have to. Expert in it.
Rusty Keeler: No. No. But if you just have it in your heart and you can start to think about like, well, who could I ask? Who are the people in my community? And to bring them in and, and you know, I’ve done community projects, you know, for so many years, and you just see over and over people love to be a part of special projects like that.
Yes. Love. Love. Yeah. They love to
Gemma Nicholl Medina: share. They wanna share that culture.
Rusty Keeler: They wanna share, they wanna be a part of it and wanna Yeah. Be with, be with kids. Doing good things with kids. So I always think for, for educators, don’t be afraid to, to ask, to reach out and ask and bring people in. There’s, there’s a saying in the Netherlands that I always like that was, if you don’t ask the answer is always No,
Speaker 3: that is true.
Rusty Keeler: Right. So, so you might as well ask and you know, that could just be thinking about Yeah. Plant people or artists or elders to come in. Yeah. Yeah. Any other, any other thoughts or ideas or the subject or others?
Gemma Nicholl Medina: I think that this is the time for this type of education to really come to the forefront, and so I just hope that others will join in that mission to sort of create these spaces for children that are really, really meaningful and powerful for them to connect with the land.
Rusty Keeler: Yeah. Yeah. And I love that idea. It’s, it’s everywhere.
Gemma Nicholl Medina: Yeah. Every,
Rusty Keeler: everywhere people are, there’s land, there’s history, there’s culture, and it’s gonna
Gemma Nicholl Medina: look different. You know what, what is done here in Hawaii is not gonna be replicated elsewhere because it’s a different place in a different time. So,
Rusty Keeler: yeah.
Yeah. I love that. So there it is again, kind of peeling away from just having things in, in the catalog or the way that, you know. The, the Denny’s and the strip mall, but like you just peel a little bit away and there we all are in our place with, with grass and trees and birds and history and culture and each other and community.
So I just see, you know, this idea of like, wow, imagine all the places, imagine all the early childhood centers, you know, if they just dipped in a little bit to that and really know where they’re where they are. Yeah.
Gemma Nicholl Medina: Yeah. Imagine that It would be such a beautiful tapestry of. Unique programs, right.
Uniqueness that really highlights where we are and who we are.
Rusty Keeler: Yeah. And forming that relationship and, and I think that that’s the awesome thing too about like young children in nature. We said it before, but that they, they already feel. A part of it. Right. Right. They already feel like they’re family with, with nature and, and that, that thing too of like, it doesn’t have to be huge, you know, as an adult we think we gotta do a big, a big thing in our yard to make it really have an impact.
And actually that’s not true at all. Nope. That you could do nice small things and they make huge, huge differences. And I remember from my own, like first grade that we had a garden, regular old playground, regular old blacktop, regular old, you know, recess. But the, my first grade teacher had a little garden and we went out there, all walked out together, little ducklings, and we planted stuff.
And then we, you know, weeks later came out and things were growing and it was magical. It was like, wow, this is happening here. And that was before, and my parents were gardeners, but this is almost my first memory of gardens was with, with the first grade teacher. And, you know, it was probably not a very big plot.
Right. You know, how big, very, probably very small from the adult perspective, but I just remember the magic of coming out there and just seeing the changes of the plant.
Gemma Nicholl Medina: Yeah. I, I have a similar memory and it was sweet Peas in a cup.
Rusty Keeler: Ah, it
Gemma Nicholl Medina: was literally like in a cup, but I remembered that excitement of when the flower, you saw the flower bloom.
Yeah. And that it was nothing. It was just a soil and a seed and a cup, and that was it. So, so yeah, we can create those magical moments for children and, you know, here we are however many years later and we can recall those magical moments. So it, it is meaningful for children when they connect in that way.
Yeah. And the teachers connect in that way.
Rusty Keeler: Those, those moments matter.
Gemma Nicholl Medina: Yes. Those moments do matter and what you choose to put in your space matters. Right. I also had a teacher that fond memories of having animals in her classroom. She had all different kinds of pets, and that to me as a teacher has been something that I have always had, you know, Guinea pigs or um, turtles or some, some kind of classroom pet.
’cause I just think it’s such a. There’s just so many benefits to having, taking care of animals, children, taking care of animals, and I remember that from my own childhood. So yeah, giving children those experiences that were meaningful for us, I think, you know, changes the future.
Rusty Keeler: Yeah. Yeah. I love it. I’m right, Gemma.
Well, thank you so much. Yeah. For chatting. Thank you. Sharing. Sharing. Yeah, absolutely. And I look forward to keeping the conversation going for years and years and years. Right. Yeah. Alright.
Alright. All right. Thanks for listening. Do you have a comment or a question? Email me at Play Nature podcast@gmail.com. You know, I like talking about this stuff and maybe we could use your question on a future podcast episode. As always, I have some free goodies for you in the show notes, including my outdoor loose parts guide, fun stuff in there.
And so I wish you the best in your outdoor play adventures. And when it comes to adding nature to your yard or loose parts or saying yes to risky play, my favorite motto is dream big, start small and never stop. Oh yeah. Woo, woo, woo. Let’s do it. All right. Have fun out there.
